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I think Thrall's reaction was fine.

What do you want him to do? Yell and scream at Garrosh?

He kept his cool, and voiced his opinion on Garrosh's actions. The "new Horde", especially Orcs, are supposed to live honourably. As such, if Garrosh holds these values like Thrall would expect, disappointing his warchief would be a great dishonour. If you wanted more of a physical response to try to rein in Garrosh, that would be foolish as well. A physical attempt to restrain Garrosh would suggest that Orcs are still unable to respond to anything but violence, and that control and diplomacy are beyond them.

Great thread!

I've moved it to the lore forum to make it easier to find six months from now when Zedric wants to reference it.

My post was mostly meant in humor, but the fact of the matter is Garrosh really shouldn't even be there to begin with. Thrall has not known Garrosh for terribly long. Garrosh is in the position he is in completely because of who his father was. And who was his father? An angry, overly aggressive orc supremacist that almost cost the orcs the freedom from the Burning Legion they had fought so hard for.

People get on Varian's case for being overly-aggressive as a result of his mourning of Bolvar, but Thrall's ways of mourning his "big brother" go just as far. His love for Grom has caused the orcs to take a complete 180.

Really good read. Came out 2 days ago too, so any similarities between arguments are completely coincidental.

http://www.wowinsider.com/2009/04/26/varian-wrynn-is-right/

I completely agree with this.

Again, I think this is deliberate on Blizz's part. Varian and Garrosh are analogs just like Thrall and Jaina are. The problem becomes that Thrall has the option of including Garrosh (although that is debatable since Garrosh is leader of the Maghar - a significant component of the new Horde since the opening of Outland), whereas Varian is king and really can't be excluded, much less forcibly.

In Varian's eyes, the horde are just as dangerous as any of the other threats to the alliance and the world in general. I have not seen him out right call them evil, more along the lines of brutes and stupid.

If some human warlock from the slaughtered lamb somehow did something similar to what happened at the wrath gate everyone would whine and whine about how blah blah bad Stormwind's king was for letting things like that go on.

The dark lady has known about the production of the gas that would kill both the living and the dead. She's known about it since quests in BRILL in original WoW. I've read a couple parts of the Arthas book that recently came out. And She actually shows up in the royal apothicary to check some things out, and give a pat on the back.

An Orc betrayed and killed his father. Thrall wears Doomhammer's armor and mace, and pays homage to the old horde and it's "heroes".

The horde are being seriously dirty in warsong forest. And the quests refer to them leaving wood out to ROT because they don't need it. They just want to demoralize and mess up the Night elf's forest.

I don't personally think a war on two fronts is a good idea. And the king's hatred shouldn't be worn on his sleeve, but it's totally understandable.

Also the whole comic book where he returns to the throne features the horde both helping and betraying him. Throwing him in arena's etc.

Thrall chose to side with undead, and didn't keep them in check. And after they kill his own troops and both horde and Alliance leaders, he still keeps them in the horde.

Thrall doesn't reign in Garrosh in part because Garrosh can actually beat him in a fight, and that would make Garrosh the new warchief, Garrosh in charge would divide the horde and make it far worse off, so thrall did the only thing he really could with the overly aggressive Hellscream, put him in charge of fighting the Lich kings forces and keeping him busy so he doesn't try and take over the horde through force, like what happened in UC.

^^This.

Just gonna bump this thread to point out that Varian was completely right! The horde was but one wacky nonsensical silver surfer esque promotion away from total chaos and downright evil!

THRALL LIED BLOODHOOF DIED

Vote Varian '12.